Sails is a section of troutswirl that is devoted to presenting questions for discussion and debate on the nature and possibilities of haiku. Sails will be overseen by Peter Yovu. For an introduction to this section, see Sails.
• 1st Sailing
• 2nd Sailing
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3rd Sailing
presented by Peter Yovu
Haiku? Senryu? Something else?
You have probably noticed, under Viral 4.3 and Periplum #3, an ongoing discussion about a poem by Penny Harter, much of it centered around whether it is a haiku, a senryu, or something else. In this Sailing, I would like to continue and broaden the discussion somewhat. The central question is this: do these considerations help or hinder the understanding and/or enjoyment of a poem? In what ways?
As evidenced in the Viral and Periplum discussions, some people feel that the distinction is important. Others do not. But chances are, those who do not have studied the distinctions, and probably have even, for a while anyway, kept to them in their writing, or as guidelines for reading. Here then are two related question: how important is it for newer students to learn the distinctions and to practice them? How important was this for you?
This is an open forum of course, but I believe the most helpful approach here may be a personal one. If your imagination is best served by staying within certain bounds, it would be good to hear how that works for you. And similarly, if it is best served by testing the bounds, how does that work?
I feel it would be quite enlivening to see a poem or two which, like the Harter poem, may yield to us dimensions otherwise missed without this kind of examination. So please feel free to introduce (or re-introduce) to us such work. At some point, I may do that myself with a famous poem by Chiyo-ni. I hope looking at it in this light will be fun and perhaps instructive. But maybe I won’t need to.
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Hi, All, Thanks for the feedback. I guess the thing that got me asking it is I understand that a kigo is a word that gives you an image of a certain change.. and I just was writing a haiku that used the image of
“Woodstock” in it. What puzzled me was, is it just the change of the seasons or is it any word that holds the image of change. When I used that word I was hoping that whoever would read it would come away with the full understanding that I meant the culmination of a whole change in the spirit of a nation.
I am so thankful for the input here. It helps me to get to the bottom of so many questions that keep coming up for me.
Merrill
Well, Merrill and all,
the World Kigo Database states the following:
You should not use Japanese kigo that do not fit your cultural background or region.
The aim of the World Kigo Database is to help you understand the basics of Japanese kigo to enable you to establish a saijiki of your own region, share the treasures of your own culture !
You will be the cultural ambassador of your area via haiku, open a gate to your regional culture via the introduction of your kigo.
Please help create and find new words that carry enough cultural background to be a new kigo for your area!
More is here
http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/2006/12/kigo-use-in-haiku.html
I am still hoping for the Great American Kigo Heritage Saijiki to evolve some day …
) grin
Gabi
Welll, I’ll defend Peter a bit — I think he “spoke” or rather his dog dictated (ahem!) rather informally. We deal here at THF with mostly impressive haiku. But, even in Japan I expect, and I know here in the West — a lot of tripe passes for haiku. Some folks grasp at straws to add to a verse … and seek, book in hand maybe, to “kigofy” a few lines of perhaps interesting words.
It is not of direct experience, not personal illumination of some relationship that caused poet to put pen to paper. It is an intellectual exercise. How many editors and my contemporaries can I fool this month? Can I make one up good enough to win a prize? Such pseudo poets do exist.
When friends and editors get together (in person or electronically in private) it is a hoot (FUN) to send up some lines and append a common kigo. This IS NOT TO SAY that I do not use these kigo, I do, and other kigo– sometimes tailored to my own geography and circumstance (which Merrill asked about).
Here using a few lines from my own published renku stanzas NOT paired with kigo… Never were intended as part of haiku … are what we might see as failed haiku attempts in the West, in English. Not that they might not be haiku, not at all … but that they are: (oooooh, subjectivity alert!) Bad Haiku. I made them up from available parts — with my own words so as not to embarrass anyone else.
For fun, but also illustration:
petals down the wedding chapel’s
center aisle
autumn rain
illegal immigrants caught
with forged papers
autumn rain
“Another highball here
Mr. Bartender.”
autumn rain
kayakers linger
in the shadows
autumn rain
musk oxen repel
the wolfpack’s relentless attack
spring rain
undertow at this beach
in Zanzibar
spring rain
indubitably Sherlock
shows me the crucial clue
spring rain
OK, I’m kidding around — _Mostly_ so.
Some folks could study one of these and find meaning, intentional juxtaposition of a kigo yielding depth. Such is the stuff of “desk haiku.” A lot of it passes through the haiku system. So does green corn.
– Paul MacNeil
Well, okay. Yes, Louis Miero, what you say makes sense, and I’m quite inclined to agree. When the time seems right, I will find a way to say what I mean in a more inviting “field”, though I often find that what I find inviting, others do not.
Gabi brings up an interesting point. I am indeed curious about how the American, and beyond, haiku community feels about establishing a kigo culture. This has been discussed many times in many places already, but perhaps there is more room for discussion.
Anyway, my dog made me say it!
Hi, Gabi, What makes a kigo, anyway. I realize that the lists come from the history of Japanese literature, but how would you suggest that say, someone in America create American kigos. While many of the Japanese kigos do resonate in our culture, sometimes things in our own culture resonate even more. Perhaps if I understood the criteria for a kigo, I could better understand how they can be employed more fully here.
I enjoy and derive a lot of satisfaction and understanding by becoming familiar with Japanese kigos..but I think each culture has a treasure trove words that can act as kigos.
Any thoughts on this?
“gratuitous kigofying”
indeed, that is a good attitude to prevent the establishing of a true own kigo culture for American haiku poets !
Trouble is, Peter Yovu, when you say something clever like “gratuitous kigofying”, you narrow the field down to reactivity, when you could open it up to response. Does this make sense?
paging through New Resonance 6, how about this one by Andrea Grillo:
is it still indian summer if we have to ask
Sandra, I would say the opposite: the poem relieves one of the suffering brought on too often by gratuitous kigofying. Wordplay is dogplay. Woof! And oh, the golden roller’s growly ohls of delight!
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