I won't use emoticons as I don't like them either, although I do use a lot of these ;-) or :-) but I promise not to use them further in this post to you.
I'm not aware of any baiting (in a bad way) from the post started by a person calling themselves lulu. As that naughty Jim Kacian has used pseudonoymns on THF before, although I think I was the only one to see that, it could be Jim getting a healthy feisty discussion going. ;-)
We can't continually have one foot dragging in the past of what we think both Japanese and non-Japanese was, or should be. Good writers will always push, stretch, and test the boundaries. I am sure Basho wasn't the first to do this re old pond, and crow etc...
I'm sorry if you don't find our replies to the question illuminating, but after all, this discussion is open to everyone, and you are free to leave an opinion, breaking the haiku, or otherwise, down to its basic components maybe? I think that would be fascinating to any reader to see that, even if you are not familiar, as you say, with modern haiku or modernist haiku.
I think that's what John McManus did? I found his breakdown analysis fascinating, and I am sure he doesn't purport to understand gendai haiku, and yet it was incredibly useful.
We are here to stretch ourselves, not only as writers, but as readers, and we need more difficult reading to happen otherwise our once sharp reading and writing knives will in deed become dull.
Thanks for the replies Jack, Alan and John.
I took the question at face value and in good faith and didn't see any baiting going on so was sorry that the replies that Lulu was receiving weren't that illuminating as I was going to be interested to read them myself.
The "hmm", Jack, was merely intended as a thoughtful gap filler, waiting for one of the many erudite posters to come along and help Lulu (and me) out. I wasn't hinting at anything.
My knowledge of modernist haiku, as you term them, is almost nil, but I am trying hard to learn and THF threads are one of the few places where I might do that, even if I do often find the discussion beyond me, but that's my fault, not the posters.
So, due to my general dullness and ignorance, it wasn't until I read John's thoughts that your text began to make sense.
I will go and have a look at the other thread, as you suggest and will try to keep my naivete to myself in future. (I daresay one of the emoticons would work well here but I hate them.)
I do hope Scott will drop in and share his viewpoint as the author.