Author Topic: a question  (Read 437 times)

flowerfox

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a question
« on: May 08, 2017, 11:00:18 AM »
In my chimney there are crows nesting, I hear the chicks, its so sweet.

Would using the term 'crow babies' be acceptable in a haiku instead of crow chicks?


Jan Benson

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Re: a question
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 04:47:04 AM »
For me, using crow babies would lean heavily into humanizing the birds.

Perhaps write from the sound of newly Hatched birds, using cheep it tweet?

Jan Benson
---1st Prize_The Italian Matsuo Basho Award 2016 (Int'l Foreign Language)
---A Pushcart Nominated Poet, (haiku "adobe walls").
---"The poet is accessible, the poet is for everyone." Maya Angelou

flowerfox

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Re: a question
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2017, 06:08:11 AM »
Ta, Jan, just wanted to be absolutely sure. I'm writing a prose explode about their parents and I hope I'm about the yard when they finally leave the nest, the courage to make that first leap, I wouldn't be wanting to leap off a roof  :) Bit like leaving home for the first time I suppose.

Flower





light pilgrim

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Re: a question
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 12:32:30 PM »
Hi Flower,

Kobayashi Issa (1763 - 1828) often used wrote about crows and in the English language translations of his haiku, by David G. Lanoue, it is given as "little crow".

A couple of examples:

Quote
the little crow
slips so cleverly...
spring rain

http://haikuguy.com/issa/searchenglish2.php


the little crow
is snubbed...
rice field geese

http://haikuguy.com/issa/searchenglish2.php

Alternatives : hatchling or fledgling?




light pilgrim



flowerfox

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Re: a question
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 07:50:20 AM »
Hi light pilgrim

Thanks for the reply. I am reading the book at the moment, what a delight it is. I'm beginning to realise why Kobayashi Issa was much admired and loved, he comes across in the book as a little mischievous and, a people person. Mr Lanoue has done a marvellous job.
Thank you for pointing me to the crow poems, its little things like this that make me stop and think a lot more about what I am reading, in relation to what words I would like to produce.
Some of the poems in the book, although they were written so long ago makes me laugh, and I think to myself...ah, nothing changes.

Thanks again


 
   
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 08:00:20 AM by flowerfox »

justlikeyou

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Re: a question
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2017, 10:05:27 AM »
ff, I don't have a problem with "crow babies". Nor "baby crows" or "crow chicks". Hope that helps.
Paraphrasing Diane Arbus (1923-1971) Photographer: "I really believe there are things nobody would see if I didn't (write haiku about) them."

Jan Benson

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Re: a question
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2017, 11:04:30 AM »
Flower:

Can I ask the name of the Issa book you are reading?
You make it sound interesting.

I've tried to read Lanoue's Basho book and had to put it down after 20 pages.

Issa and Buson interest me a lot.

I used to get Lanoue's daily Haiku Hut email, until I had to change my email in January.

Thanks,
Jan
---1st Prize_The Italian Matsuo Basho Award 2016 (Int'l Foreign Language)
---A Pushcart Nominated Poet, (haiku "adobe walls").
---"The poet is accessible, the poet is for everyone." Maya Angelou

flowerfox

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Re: a question
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2017, 11:25:32 AM »
Flower:

Can I ask the name of the Issa book you are reading?
You make it sound interesting.

I've tried to read Lanoue's Basho book and had to put it down after 20 pages.

Issa and Buson interest me a lot.

I used to get Lanoue's daily Haiku Hut email, until I had to change my email in January.

Thanks,
Jan


Pure Land Haiku
The Art of Priest Issa.

'Some' of the haiku seem so out of place with Buddhist ideology. As long as he prays to Amida, all will be fine. I just find it amusing what Issa does while praying...cooking chicken  ???
Maybe I need to read the poems a bit deeper.

Just to add -
I haven't read any Buson, at the moment. I know he was an artist, and poet. When I read his work I would like the 'full monty' so to speak. As yet, haven't found a book with both.


Flower
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 10:58:07 PM by flowerfox »

flowerfox

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Re: a question
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2017, 11:33:12 AM »
ff, I don't have a problem with "crow babies". Nor "baby crows" or "crow chicks". Hope that helps.


I'm glad you said that, I like the term, 'crow babies'
I know there are rules about presenting a good haiku, however, I have been told 'some' haiku have their own rules, but in this instance I will behave myself. I'm having wonderful feed back, here, and constructive criticism is always welcome.
I know crows are a common species, but so were many others before them, I hope I can do them justice...just in case  :)

Many thanks, Rick

Ff 

Seaview

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Re: a question
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2017, 09:30:29 AM »
For some reason, 'crow babies' sounds quite cartoonish to me, flowerfox. Perhaps it's because babies are supposed to be cuddly and crows are, well, they're more feathery or spikey  ;D

I do love 'little crow/s' and I suppose 'crow young' or 'young crows' are okay. But those 'crow babies' sounds a bit too cute - unless they are of course!   :D :D :D

marion

flowerfox

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Re: a question
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 12:22:05 PM »
Thanks, Marion.
I haven't been in here for a while, but I must say...I do find our black feather friends, well, lovely  :)

The question I would like to ask, at this time is- When it comes to verbs, adverbs and nouns, etc, what do you think when composing a haiku is the most appropriate arrangement to use. An example would be useful. Thank you. 

Seaview

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Re: a question
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2017, 01:46:18 AM »
I am not experienced enough to answer this question, flowerfox, but I have just done a search on haiku and verbs and found a review by Alan Summers in his blog Area 17. The subject is Allan Burns' collection 'Earthlings' (Art by Ron C. Moss, a muttering thunder publication (2015) )

In this extract, Alan focuses on verbs...

"Burns commences the collection with this poem - a scene I imagine he saw many times, but perhaps always as if for the first time, again:

sun-rimmed mist…
the asters trading
butterflies

This brings me to a feature of some of the best haiku, and that is, if we use verbs are they merely per-functionary vehicles for carrying our concrete imagery?  Haiku has been called the poetry of nouns, and perhaps as a practice verbs are required to be unobtrusive, although poets outside haikai literature thrive on its vivacity, where they share at least equal status with all other words and devices.

Should haiku be informed by verbs and by how much?    Bob Spiess says no, that the verbal function can be taken over by other words, and well, yes, I agree.   I admire haiku using the agent of nouns to present action and elements of our senses from “one to five”, and those senses in and on our peripheral.   Well placed verbs that sit outside the neutrality expected of them within haiku can bring out astounding juxtaposition, revealing what our honed peripheral senses can reward us with:

cumulus bulking…
one of the shrub’s leaves
is a katydid

This is a collection that doesn’t depend on a single trick, and the use of verbs has brought up some startling scenes that inform strong nature writing not limited to a safe and perceived world of wildlife, and a out-of-sightedness of what we do to our fellow citizens:

the caged chimpanzee
injected with hepatitis
signs hello

This collection isn’t about otherness, it’s us recognising that we are part of “them”, that there is no real them and us or them or us; that we are not above or outside the rest of nature, that we can engage with the rest of ‘us’ via small eco-poetic hits like haiku verses:

ill this fall day…
a crow softens peanut shells
in the birdbath

Reporting the news has become a sinister trade embellishing what Joseph Goebbels (Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945) developed from the past, to the demise of one newspaper that was finally exposed as being far from the news of the world. Haiku is such a potent reporting tool: It can connect us to the small snippets that humans are in the bigger picture of things.  Nature may be tooth and claw, but opposable thumbs give us space, just as one of my opposable thumbs creates space by tapping the space bar on my computer.

What will become of us as we wonder less and less about nature, and what stays with me, and resonates, is carried by the verb in this haiku:

what’s to come of us…
long into the night
a fox screams"

Very interesting.

BTW the last verb in the extract to describe the call of the fox reminded me instantly of Rick's yip yapping coyotes over on the advanced forum. :)



flowerfox

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Re: a question
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2017, 12:21:46 PM »
This is a very interesting and informative answer, many thanks.
This is a reply I will have to read in more depth again, in a quiet time, something to be digested, and re-read.
I agree with your last comment about, Rick's verse :)
So many times I have heard the scream of a fox, somewhere in the dark night, it never fails to make my blood run cold, but for some reason I feel  it has a romance about it.
Thanks again, Marion.

flowerfox

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Re: a question
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2017, 03:58:56 AM »
Your reply has been of immense help, marion.  ;D

Seaview

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Re: a question
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2017, 02:48:05 AM »
Your reply has been of immense help, marion.  ;D

I'm so glad, flowerfox :)