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Messages - Seaview (Marion Clarke)

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New to Haiku: Free Discussion Area / Re: a question
« on: October 12, 2017, 01:46:18 AM »
I am not experienced enough to answer this question, flowerfox, but I have just done a search on haiku and verbs and found a review by Alan Summers in his blog Area 17. The subject is Allan Burns' collection 'Earthlings' (Art by Ron C. Moss, a muttering thunder publication (2015) )

In this extract, Alan focuses on verbs...

"Burns commences the collection with this poem - a scene I imagine he saw many times, but perhaps always as if for the first time, again:

sun-rimmed mist…
the asters trading

This brings me to a feature of some of the best haiku, and that is, if we use verbs are they merely per-functionary vehicles for carrying our concrete imagery?  Haiku has been called the poetry of nouns, and perhaps as a practice verbs are required to be unobtrusive, although poets outside haikai literature thrive on its vivacity, where they share at least equal status with all other words and devices.

Should haiku be informed by verbs and by how much?    Bob Spiess says no, that the verbal function can be taken over by other words, and well, yes, I agree.   I admire haiku using the agent of nouns to present action and elements of our senses from “one to five”, and those senses in and on our peripheral.   Well placed verbs that sit outside the neutrality expected of them within haiku can bring out astounding juxtaposition, revealing what our honed peripheral senses can reward us with:

cumulus bulking…
one of the shrub’s leaves
is a katydid

This is a collection that doesn’t depend on a single trick, and the use of verbs has brought up some startling scenes that inform strong nature writing not limited to a safe and perceived world of wildlife, and a out-of-sightedness of what we do to our fellow citizens:

the caged chimpanzee
injected with hepatitis
signs hello

This collection isn’t about otherness, it’s us recognising that we are part of “them”, that there is no real them and us or them or us; that we are not above or outside the rest of nature, that we can engage with the rest of ‘us’ via small eco-poetic hits like haiku verses:

ill this fall day…
a crow softens peanut shells
in the birdbath

Reporting the news has become a sinister trade embellishing what Joseph Goebbels (Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945) developed from the past, to the demise of one newspaper that was finally exposed as being far from the news of the world. Haiku is such a potent reporting tool: It can connect us to the small snippets that humans are in the bigger picture of things.  Nature may be tooth and claw, but opposable thumbs give us space, just as one of my opposable thumbs creates space by tapping the space bar on my computer.

What will become of us as we wonder less and less about nature, and what stays with me, and resonates, is carried by the verb in this haiku:

what’s to come of us…
long into the night
a fox screams"

Very interesting.

BTW the last verb in the extract to describe the call of the fox reminded me instantly of Rick's yip yapping coyotes over on the advanced forum. :)

New to Haiku: Free Discussion Area / Re: Rasika
« on: October 12, 2017, 01:28:59 AM »
Thank you, Alan. I see Kala's renku is well underway. :)


Judged by Angelee Deodhar, DeVar Dahl, and Billie Wilson.

Lots of haiku friends in here - congratulations to all!

“I am not one who is sensitive on the issue. I feel my haiku are 'given to me' … and do not feel that they are 'mine' in any way.”

These are words of a Master.

Indeed, Rick.

After writing this, I went looking for the haiku I posted on THF and then consulted with Jane's haiku in Symbiotic Poetry to discover I hadn't even remembered hers properly! I wrote:

river mouth
two young lovers
stop to kiss

and Jane's was ...

river mouth
the lovers stop
for a kiss

As Don Baird rightly pointed out in a comment, the 'two' in my version isn't necessary. :)

A highly interesting thread.

Although only four words long, the (seeming increasingly popular!) phrase "what light there is" is loaded with potential emotion, both negative or positive and I’m sure it’s been used on other occasions.  However, disregarding any other instances of its use, I would be rather reluctant to employ it after Lorin’s “rain beads” monoku, which is beautiful and full of hope.

On the subject of cryptomnesia/deja ku/plagiarism/ and at the risk of exposing myself to potential ridicule,  I must admit to having experienced possibly one of the worst and most embarrassing cases of cryptomnesia ever. I once unknowingly posted a haiku of Jane Reichold's - wait for it - on her own poetry forum!  It is all on here on the advanced mentoring feature (if anyone wishes to read about it, just look up “river mouth”)

I only realised what had happened when I came across the original haiku some weeks later as I was flicking through the pages of Symbiotic Poetry, a voluminous collection of Jane and her husband Werner's work. Almost a year earlier, Jane had sent me a review copy which I had been dipping in and out of, making notes, before getting round to writing the piece (subsequently published in Frogpond) 

Below is the haiku. Although I hadn't noted it specifically for the review, it must have just been 'filed' somewhere in my brain and forgotten about.

river mouth
the lovers stop
for a kiss

At the time of researching the article, I was working outdoors on an oil painting, a landscape featuring the mouth of the lough here in Warrenpoint. This may have pulled Jane’s haiku to the surface as I slept one night. Anyway, I woke up with it in my head, loved it and wrote it down in order to post it on AHA and here on THF, where I asked if anyone found it familiar as it had literally appeared overnight. They didn’t and on both sites some members posted very complimentary comments, and others suggested alternatives.

Once I discovered the original haiku myself, I contacted Jane immediately to explain. She hadn't seen it on AHA and was very gracious. I still have her message:

“I am not one who is sensitive on the issue. I feel my haiku are 'given to me' … and do not feel that they are 'mine' in any way.”

But it was still a most embarrassing experience and I now know the feeling of dread when something like this happens to a poet, so I would have died of shame if I’d been accused of plagiarism at the time. As Jane pointed out, “I am so glad you found my haiku yourself and no one bothered you!”

Lesson learned: if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. :)

New to Haiku: Free Discussion Area / Re: Rules for Haiga
« on: June 22, 2017, 03:08:45 AM »
I wonder what they'll make of one I have just sent, Jan - it features my oil painting of bluebells in the Mourne Mountains. It looks like a painting rather than a photograph, but was taken with my iPad and I have left it completely untouched (not even an auto correct! ;D ) , so strictly speaking, it is a photo haiku even though it doesn't look like it!


In-Depth Haiku: Free Discussion Area / Re: cliché in haiku
« on: June 04, 2017, 03:06:22 AM »
Good grief, how time passes, Alan. I've just come back to this thread via the mentoring section and can't believe it was five years ago that I joined in on the discussion. However, I have remembered your advice in this time but must admit that I may have snuck in the word "old" when I couldn't find an alternative!  ;D

Great to come back to this topic as it will always be relevant. Oh, and your heron comments have just inspired my first ku on the subject in five years ...

clumsy since birth
I grow up to become
a heron

:D :D :D


New to Haiku: Free Discussion Area / Re: a question
« on: June 03, 2017, 09:30:29 AM »
For some reason, 'crow babies' sounds quite cartoonish to me, flowerfox. Perhaps it's because babies are supposed to be cuddly and crows are, well, they're more feathery or spikey  ;D

I do love 'little crow/s' and I suppose 'crow young' or 'young crows' are okay. But those 'crow babies' sounds a bit too cute - unless they are of course!   :D :D :D


New to Haiku: Free Discussion Area / Re: Rules for Haiga
« on: June 03, 2017, 09:24:13 AM »
It was the Japanese haijin who brought it up.
It was more of a long pause, a tilt of the head, and a direct comment that he recognised the alteration. It sort of just hung in the air. I do think the lady did comment too.

It was obvious and yet subtle.


So there was no statement as to whether it was acceptable practice or not...interesting.


New to Haiku: Free Discussion Area / Re: Rules for Haiga
« on: May 01, 2017, 03:14:15 PM »
I know the one you mean, Jan, as I think I mentioned to Elaine on Facebook how much I enjoyed the colour in it and her tulip shahai. But I don't remember the comments on it when it first appeared - perhaps it was before I became aware of Haiku Masters. Were they very negative about it?


New to Haiku: Free Discussion Area / Re: Rules for Haiga
« on: April 22, 2017, 05:00:55 AM »
Alan and Lorraine:
How did I miss this!

Great resources here.
Glad for this Discussion!

Jan in Texas

I too only spotted this thread quite recently, Jan (I know, I know, I need to get my act together on the forum! 😳)

I sent a couple of the links Alan posted to my son who is studying Advanced Art and is combining text with surrealism in some of the pieces he is working on. The interpretation of the Magritte painting and Jim Kacian's essay on haiga were of interest to him.

So many great resources - it's finding time to delve into them that's the problem.


New to Haiku: Free Discussion Area / Re: Rules for Haiga
« on: April 22, 2017, 04:46:06 AM »
Hi Alan,
I've glanced at your links; the glancing has inspired me to open my Aperture library and look at my minimalist photos in particular.

A question: It has been my habit to send my selected photos over to Photoshop, mainly to minimize elements and to make the photos more 'sketch-like.' The fact that they started life as a photograph still puts the completed image into the photograph category no matter what the end result-correct?

Like Arnold, I'll be back  8)


That's a very interesting question, Lorraine. I have noticed some photo haiku on the popular Japanese programme Haiku Masters look more like a piece of art than a photo because they have been digitally manipulated or had filters added. This made me consider combining some of my paintings with haiku, but then I thought "but that's a haiga, rather than a photo haiku." So it appears to be a thin line...


Contests and Awards / Re: Wonderfold winning haibun
« on: February 03, 2017, 05:18:31 AM »

I'm also delighted that this haibun was very quickly picked up by a brand new magazine that includes haibun along with other creative forms.  It comes out in April 2017 and future issues will be open for submissions.

Glad to see that haibun is getting out there more and more.

warm regards,


Sounds good, Alan!


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