Author Topic: is gendai good?  (Read 2543 times)

Diane of RosenberryBooks

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is gendai good?
« on: July 22, 2014, 06:12:25 AM »
I've been feeling rather opinionated about gendai haiku

Sometimes, in my opinion, these poems can leave the reader behind without a frame of reference to share in the poet’s intentions. In some cases, the reader might not be able to gain any other experience than witnessing some word play, though, for the author, there may be much more imbedded in the words.

But because of Tyler Pruett's new collection, Blue Wolves Are Howling Grapefruit Orange, I've gained a new perspective.

Sometimes, I am delighted to discover, gendai haiku can be visionary.

It can pierce “reality” and take us deeper. The narrative format and gradual "decent" or (ascent?) into gendai  that occurs in Blue Wolves Are Howling Grapefruit Orange assists in this.

I've written a few more words on the subject here:
http://rosenberrybooks.com/what-is-gendai-haiku/

..and would welcome the input of those more experienced with (or just opinionated about) the genre.

Thanks!
Diane Katz

AlanSummers

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Re: is gendai good?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2014, 06:56:00 AM »
Hi Diane,

Tyler Pruett is pretty cool!

Tyler Pruett is a poet with a special interest in English language haiku. He recently won first prize in the Japanese Mainichi Daily News, Haiku in English 'Best of 2005', and has also recently appeared in Acorn, bottle rockets, Roadrunner Haiku Journal, and Frogpond. He is a member of The Haiku Society of America, and a 1998 graduate of Portland State University in Portland, Oregon. He lives in Augusta, Maine, USA with his wife, Ellen, and their four daughters: http://www.simplyhaiku.com/SHv7n2/haiku/Assemblage.html

THF Haiku Registry:  http://www.thehaikufoundation.org/poet-details/?IDclient=582

I couldn't locate Blue Wolves Are Howling Grapefruit Orange, but your link took me there:
http://rosenberrybooks.com/hand-bound-editions/haiku/blue-wolves-are-howling-grapefruit-orange/

Here's my gendai collection:  http://area17.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/does-fish-god-know-haiku-collection-by.html

Gendai haiku in Japan does cover a wide expanse of writing, including the use of kigo.

Two gendai sites:
http://gendai-haiku.blogspot.de
http://gendaihaiku.com

Here's my article:  http://area17.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/the-g-force-of-blue-touching-base-with.html

You might also enjoy Bones journal of which I'm a founding editor:
http://bonesjournal.com

Books: http://bonesjournal.com/essays/index.html

Tyler's book is now on my wish list! :-)

warm regards,

Alan

I've been feeling rather opinionated about gendai haiku

Sometimes, in my opinion, these poems can leave the reader behind without a frame of reference to share in the poet’s intentions. In some cases, the reader might not be able to gain any other experience than witnessing some word play, though, for the author, there may be much more imbedded in the words.

But because of Tyler Pruett's new collection, Blue Wolves Are Howling Grapefruit Orange, I've gained a new perspective.

Sometimes, I am delighted to discover, gendai haiku can be visionary.

It can pierce “reality” and take us deeper. The narrative format and gradual "decent" or (ascent?) into gendai  that occurs in Blue Wolves Are Howling Grapefruit Orange assists in this.

I've written a few more words on the subject here:
http://rosenberrybooks.com/what-is-gendai-haiku/

..and would welcome the input of those more experienced with (or just opinionated about) the genre.

Thanks!
Diane Katz

Johannes S. H. Bjerg

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Re: is gendai good?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2014, 08:06:52 AM »
To ask if gendai is "good" really makes no sense. Taking that "gendai" means new, contemporary, fresh the question really means: "is new haiku good?" ...

One aspect of haiku we have to embrace, or at least acknowledge, is its vast diversity. Haiku is very much more than adapting Western minds to Japanese tradition (and why would we do that?). Haiku is poetry written by humans. Humans have a very different experiences with being alive, humans are different. People write for all sorts of reasons and in all sorts of ways and we should be applauding this fact. The days were emulating a Japanese mind-set seemed to be "the thing" are gone ... for most parts. Of course there are still those that do so and that's fine, but this isn't The Way in haiku; there isn't one way of writing haiku, there isn't One Haiku except for that abstract Big Haiku that is all the various types of haiku that is written these days.

I could revert the question: "Is traditional haiku good?" Haven't we moved on past replicating what we never can become as Westerners?

Anna

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Re: is gendai good?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2015, 06:33:01 PM »


 This is interesting, many links to read more. Thanks all.
A big blue sky!
have the buffaloes eaten
all of the clouds?   
                             ¬Mikihiko Itami (1920-)

Jan Benson

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Re: is gendai good?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2016, 09:50:13 PM »
No reply necessary.
But I want to return to this reference material.
And want it in my thread of sites visited. ..
Jan
---1st Prize_The Italian Matsuo Basho Award 2016 (Int'l Foreign Language)
---A Pushcart Nominated Poet, (haiku "adobe walls").
---"The poet is accessible, the poet is for everyone." Maya Angelou

AlanSummers

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Re: is gendai good?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2016, 12:32:39 PM »
As a criticism about gendai haiku in the West was mentioned in passing, and I see this from time to time, I thought it timely to reopen and re-examine the topic.

Is gendai good?   Well any approach to any writing genre regardless if it is a success in its own right or not, brings forth interesting experiments that feed into and energise anything that may start to become repetitive and/or formulaic aka 'formula'.

I don't write gendai haiku any more, as far as I am aware, and perhaps no one else does, it's an important staging post.   Do we write in the 21st century with all its timeless issues, as well as new problems, or just introverterize ourselves?

Alan

To ask if gendai is "good" really makes no sense. Taking that "gendai" means new, contemporary, fresh the question really means: "is new haiku good?" ...

One aspect of haiku we have to embrace, or at least acknowledge, is its vast diversity. Haiku is very much more than adapting Western minds to Japanese tradition (and why would we do that?). Haiku is poetry written by humans. Humans have a very different experiences with being alive, humans are different. People write for all sorts of reasons and in all sorts of ways and we should be applauding this fact. The days were emulating a Japanese mind-set seemed to be "the thing" are gone ... for most parts. Of course there are still those that do so and that's fine, but this isn't The Way in haiku; there isn't one way of writing haiku, there isn't One Haiku except for that abstract Big Haiku that is all the various types of haiku that is written these days.

I could revert the question: "Is traditional haiku good?" Haven't we moved on past replicating what we never can become as Westerners?

Jan Benson

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Re: is gendai good?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2016, 06:38:26 PM »
Alan:
You lost me at the very last sentence. Is that meant as a comparative of two ideas?
1. Timeless issues and/or new problems
2. "Introverterize" ??? (Navel gazing???)

Or is your point that you and JSH Bjerg have different ideas/meanings to Gendai as an expression of haiku?

Jan Benson

As a criticism about gendai haiku in the West was mentioned in passing, and I see this from time to time, I thought it timely to reopen and re-examine the topic.

Is gendai good?   Well any approach to any writing genre regardless if it is a success in its own right or not, brings forth interesting experiments that feed into and energise anything that may start to become repetitive and/or formulaic aka 'formula'.

I don't write gendai haiku any more, as far as I am aware, and perhaps no one else does, it's an important staging post.   Do we write in the 21st century with all its timeless issues, as well as new problems, or just introverterize ourselves?

Alan

To ask if gendai is "good" really makes no sense. Taking that "gendai" means new, contemporary, fresh the question really means: "is new haiku good?" ...

One aspect of haiku we have to embrace, or at least acknowledge, is its vast diversity. Haiku is very much more than adapting Western minds to Japanese tradition (and why would we do that?). Haiku is poetry written by humans. Humans have a very different experiences with being alive, humans are different. People write for all sorts of reasons and in all sorts of ways and we should be applauding this fact. The days were emulating a Japanese mind-set seemed to be "the thing" are gone ... for most parts. Of course there are still those that do so and that's fine, but this isn't The Way in haiku; there isn't one way of writing haiku, there isn't One Haiku except for that abstract Big Haiku that is all the various types of haiku that is written these days.

I could revert the question: "Is traditional haiku good?" Haven't we moved on past replicating what we never can become as Westerners?
---1st Prize_The Italian Matsuo Basho Award 2016 (Int'l Foreign Language)
---A Pushcart Nominated Poet, (haiku "adobe walls").
---"The poet is accessible, the poet is for everyone." Maya Angelou

AlanSummers

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Re: is gendai good?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2016, 12:52:56 AM »
Hi Jan,


Do we write in the 21st century with all its timeless issues, as well as new problems, or just introverterize ourselves?

Alan:
You lost me at the very last sentence. Is that meant as a comparative of two ideas?
1. Timeless issues and/or new problems
2. "Introverterize" ??? (Navel gazing???)

Or is your point that you and JSH Bjerg have different ideas/meanings to Gendai as an expression of haiku?

Jan Benson

Now and then I see mention of gendai haiku as if it's a bad thing, when it's just an established mode of expression within the Japanese pantheon of haiku which is as relevant to non-Japanese haiku.  If we are in the 21st Century, shouldn't we acknowledge our own times in haiku just as earlier haikai writers took note of their times?

This century has the same problems that plagued last century, and the same things, so far, that convey the seasons, though that is changing.  So not two different things so much as absorbing timeless haikai themes but acknowledging we live in a new time as well.

Yes, navel gazing, being complacent about writing about an idyllic time that never existed.

I've long been a fan of Johannes Bjerg work before he was more widely known, and I wouldn't narrow his work down to being labelled one kind of haiku or another.

I am just puzzled when gendai is mentioned as if it's a bad thing being in the 21st Century.

Alan

As a criticism about gendai haiku in the West was mentioned in passing, and I see this from time to time, I thought it timely to reopen and re-examine the topic.

Is gendai good?   Well any approach to any writing genre regardless if it is a success in its own right or not, brings forth interesting experiments that feed into and energise anything that may start to become repetitive and/or formulaic aka 'formula'.

I don't write gendai haiku any more, as far as I am aware, and perhaps no one else does, it's an important staging post.   Do we write in the 21st century with all its timeless issues, as well as new problems, or just introverterize ourselves?

Alan

To ask if gendai is "good" really makes no sense. Taking that "gendai" means new, contemporary, fresh the question really means: "is new haiku good?" ...

One aspect of haiku we have to embrace, or at least acknowledge, is its vast diversity. Haiku is very much more than adapting Western minds to Japanese tradition (and why would we do that?). Haiku is poetry written by humans. Humans have a very different experiences with being alive, humans are different. People write for all sorts of reasons and in all sorts of ways and we should be applauding this fact. The days were emulating a Japanese mind-set seemed to be "the thing" are gone ... for most parts. Of course there are still those that do so and that's fine, but this isn't The Way in haiku; there isn't one way of writing haiku, there isn't One Haiku except for that abstract Big Haiku that is all the various types of haiku that is written these days.

I could revert the question: "Is traditional haiku good?" Haven't we moved on past replicating what we never can become as Westerners?

AlanSummers

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Re: is gendai good?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2016, 02:06:44 AM »
John W. Sexton calls his recently published poems in Rose Red Review edited by Larissa Nash, as:
"...hybrid gendai / scifaiku sequences: "All the Way Down," "The Inevitably Lost," and "Insensible of Concussion"."
http://roseredreview.org/2016-autumn/


cactus

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Re: is gendai good?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2016, 08:06:51 AM »
John W. Sexton calls his recently published poems in Rose Red Review edited by Larissa Nash, as:
"...hybrid gendai / scifaiku sequences: "All the Way Down," "The Inevitably Lost," and "Insensible of Concussion"."
http://roseredreview.org/2016-autumn/

Mr Sexton is quite witty is he not? This appealed to me:

“tundra and lightning” …
the fridge sends
a brief biography

AlanSummers

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Re: is gendai good?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2019, 02:58:40 AM »
Tohta Kaneko, who fought in WWII, was a freedom-loving poet dedicated life to protesting against war ever since, until his late nineties when he died at 98 years old.

An expanded account of his life is being published later this year:
https://www.redmoonpress.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=308&osCsid=24a14fdcfb0ed3b9b4364c76c14b47db

He embraced gendai as well as the wildness of haikai verse style by Issa.

warm regards,
Alan