Author Topic: two images  (Read 4012 times)

josie hibbing

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two images
« on: June 19, 2011, 11:37:32 PM »
I mentors! I have a question about "images" in haiku. I read a while ago that a haiku has to have two images, but I've read many haiku that I think were good but do not have two images. I'm a little confused  ???

Josie

AlanSummers

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Re: two images
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 05:14:35 AM »
Hi Josie,

Thanks for the great question! ;-)

First of all, haiku evolves fast, so just make a note of past and current descriptions, and find your own voice, taking or leaving certain things said about haiku.

Secondly, the two image technique is a useful one, so do add it to your armoury.

Thirdly, a one image haiku may need more tension, but it's definitely achievable.

Do you have any examples of any one image haiku that you liked?

Alan

p.s.

Check out this weblink for some terrific haiku.  John Barlow won with a one line haiku:
http://haiku-presence.50webs.com/awards/awards10.html

Also the judge's comments might prove useful.



I mentors! I have a question about "images" in haiku. I read a while ago that a haiku has to have two images, but I've read many haiku that I think were good but do not have two images. I'm a little confused  ???

Josie

Don Baird

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Re: two images
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2011, 02:21:28 AM »
Hello,

I'd also love to see a single image haiku example that you have in mind!  I generally write haiku with two images and then of course, clash them (juxtaposition etc.).

Thanks,

Don
I write haiku because they're there ...

through
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spring!

josie hibbing

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Re: two images
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2011, 12:21:49 AM »
Hi Alan! Thank you for your response. I apologize for not writing back soon.

You said that "two image technique" is useful. Do you mean that the "two image" thing is just a technique, not a rule? Maybe I misunderstood what I read. I thought that the 2-image is a rule. If it's only a technique, it means it is not required. I've read a lot of haiku and write a lot of haiku with only one image, and I've been thinking that I break the rule. It makes me feel a little better knowing I did not break a rule.

Here's a couple of my favorite haiku by Basho that  I think have only one image:

under cherry-trees
  soup, the salad,
  fish and all...
seasoned with petals

husking rice,
a child squints up
to view the moon

And I should not forget to mention that Basho's most famous haiku about the frog jumping into the pond is clearly a one image haiku.

Alan, will you also please explain to me what you mean when you said-- a one image haiku may need more "tension"? 

Josie


josie hibbing

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Re: two images
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2011, 12:32:03 AM »
Hi Don! Here is a couple one-image haiku that I wrote :

Palm Sunday-
the April shower turns
to snow

late late night
crying over
chopped onions

In my first haiku, line 1-- Palm Sunday, is surely not an image because it is a certain day.
And in my second haiku, there is definitely one image. 

I would like to know how you clash two images as you said in your response.

Thank you very much, Don!

Josie

John McManus

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Re: two images
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2011, 04:04:03 AM »
Hi Josie, sorry to perhaps confuse things, but those haiku that you reference do have more than one image, remember even if your not actually stating images they are often implied and present to alot of readers.

For example, look at line 1 of your first ku   

palm sunday

yes, as you quite rightly say this states a particular day, but what else does it do? For me it brings me an image of people shuffling into church dressed in their 'sunday best'. You also give us an image of rain in line two, followed by a final image of snow in line three. So in truth, there are two direct images that you have clearly stated, and one image within the white space of the first line.

Your second ku is much the same. Again look at the first line.

late late night

How does one know when it's night? For me any mention of night naturally brings forth the images of stars, the moon, shadows, even the red numbers on the digital clock by my bed. So, in by just stating night you give me a wealth of images to explore. In line two by using the word crying you bring forth the image and other related sensations of tears sliding down one's face, and by using the words 'chopped onions' you not only give me the image of onions, but of a chopping board, and a sharp knife in your hand.

All this is obviously just my subjective interpretations of your two ku, but I would wager I'm not the only one to get more than one image out of them.

warm regards,
John       

   



   

AlanSummers

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Re: two images
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2011, 05:24:53 AM »
Hi Josie,

Thanks for getting back, and I see that you've got good replies already! ;-)

I'd say that most haiku have two images at least.  There's the seasonal reference and at least one concrete image (naming an object) and an activity.

re tension, we covered a bit of this at:
http://www.thehaikufoundation.org/forum_sm/new-to-haiku-free-discussion/tension-in-haiku/?action=printpage

The overall feeling of a haiku be it two images etc... is a new overall image which is why you might be thinking it's mostly one image?

If you run through a lot of the haiku posted in Share Haiku you'll see where juxtaposing two images creates tension rather than a flat banal verse.

I think many of us don't use the term 'rules' as everyone gets fixated in breaking them. ;-)

There are hundreds of techniques in haiku because both Japanese and non-Japanese writers borrow both Western/non-Western/Japanese art and literature techniques for our haiku.

Do you know the translator's name of Basho's verses?  Basho only wrote in Japanese, so a translator holds copyright over their English-language version, and should be credited too.

Both two image haiku and a single image haiku will often need tension (a useful technique in its own right) otherwise the verse becomes so-so.

When I read good haiku with good tension they become multi-dimensional in meanings and I can happily re-read that kind of haiku several hundred times over a  few years and never tire of reading it.

If you read my judge's commentary on these winning haiku you'll get an idea of what constitutes a good haiku, and each of these also carry a level of tension to one degree or another:
http://www.withwords.org.uk/results.html

I read these haiku several hundred times for the competition, and still continue to read them regularly as they always appear fresh as if I've read them for the first time. ;-)

Alan


Hi Alan! Thank you for your response. I apologize for not writing back soon.

You said that "two image technique" is useful. Do you mean that the "two image" thing is just a technique, not a rule? Maybe I misunderstood what I read. I thought that the 2-image is a rule. If it's only a technique, it means it is not required. I've read a lot of haiku and write a lot of haiku with only one image, and I've been thinking that I break the rule. It makes me feel a little better knowing I did not break a rule.

Here's a couple of my favorite haiku by Basho that  I think have only one image:

under cherry-trees
  soup, the salad,
  fish and all...
seasoned with petals

husking rice,
a child squints up
to view the moon

And I should not forget to mention that Basho's most famous haiku about the frog jumping into the pond is clearly a one image haiku.

Alan, will you also please explain to me what you mean when you said-- a one image haiku may need more "tension"? 

Josie



Don Baird

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Re: two images
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2011, 12:18:56 PM »
Hi Josie,

Palm Sunday-
the April shower turns
to snow

late late night
crying over
chopped onions

Both of these haiku are two image haiku either through obivous statement or inference image such as Palm Sunday - an image to many people; a statement to others.

Interesting thread,

Don
I write haiku because they're there ...

through
the hole of a cheerio,
spring!

josie hibbing

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Re: two images
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2011, 07:48:57 PM »
Hi John! Thank you for your enlightenment. I didn't realize that my two haiku implies more that one image. When I wrote them, I was just thinking of one image especially the "chopped onion". The first haiku-- that happened on Palm Sunday so I wrote Palm Sunday not thinking of the image it makes. It is obvious that I need to pay attention to haiku images and need to study more  :)

Thanks John for your response, you're very kind!

Josie

josie hibbing

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Re: two images
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2011, 08:05:53 PM »
Hello Alan! I read your comments to the winning haiku from the link you gave me. Your comments are so wonderful and they gave me more dimension to those beautiful haiku. Thank you for the link.

You said that the overall feeling of a haiku (one image or two) is an overall new image. Maybe that is why many times when I read a haiku I can see every thing in the haiku in one scene in my brain.

I really appreciate all your help, Alan. I hope you won't get tired of me asking questions because I'll probably pop more questions some time  :-*

Josie

josie hibbing

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Re: two images
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2011, 08:09:41 PM »
Thanks Don for getting back to me. I have learned a lot! I'm glad I asked this question! As I told the other mentors, I need to study more! Have a great day!

Josie

 

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