Author Topic: haiku or something else  (Read 4902 times)

Anna

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Re: haiku or something else
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2016, 02:05:21 AM »
wonderful reading links in there, will last me a month and more ...

Quote
Is there anything more to be wrung out of this discussion, short of asking...

wow, some carpet dusting that... ;D

Quote
...do you have to feel
personally satisfied that it meets your own criteria for what is a haiku, or are you willing to publish something which not only pushes boundaries, but goes beyond?


What is your own opinion on this, Meg?

My answer:
We all live our lives in our own little realities, and every kind of  answer to your question is justified.
It is like this:  After eating at a rated restaurant which was supposed to serve authentic Hyderabadi food, the chef defended his reason from deviating from the recipe to cater to the tastes of clientele. I had only this to say, if you never serve the original, who will remember it and how will anyone know whether your rendition is a success? 
In other words, what is the bench mark, what do I measure my work against? Not only as good or bad, but also as how further off is my push the boundary stuff? 

But then again without the help of Gauguin, how much further (could and/orwould)  Gogh have gone on?
Or from more recent lot: What makes Tjalf Sparnaay's fried eggs and burgers on canvas so massively successful given their commonplace themes?



If anyone comes, / Turn into frogs, / O cooling melons!

¬Issa

AlanSummers

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Re: haiku or something else
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2016, 03:36:35 AM »
Meg, Anna,

Or David Cobley's spilt milk?
http://www.davidcobley.com/still-lifes-c5jd?lightbox=i5669

Do we seek the ultra realism of the Sculpture of a baby by superrealist artist, Ron Mueck?

I think we seek beyond the snapshot or details in a report and perhaps dandelions are piggybacked by ants as astronauts:

dandelion antsronauts

After all we call sports grass 'astroturf'?   A term that changed it from chemturf to AstroTurf by John A. Wortmann when used at the Houston Astrodome stadium in 1966.   We have a fascination for the word and term 'astro'

Alan



wonderful reading links in there, will last me a month and more ...

Quote
Is there anything more to be wrung out of this discussion, short of asking...

wow, some carpet dusting that... ;D

Quote
...do you have to feel
personally satisfied that it meets your own criteria for what is a haiku, or are you willing to publish something which not only pushes boundaries, but goes beyond?


What is your own opinion on this, Meg?

My answer:
We all live our lives in our own little realities, and every kind of  answer to your question is justified.
It is like this:  After eating at a rated restaurant which was supposed to serve authentic Hyderabadi food, the chef defended his reason from deviating from the recipe to cater to the tastes of clientele. I had only this to say, if you never serve the original, who will remember it and how will anyone know whether your rendition is a success? 
In other words, what is the bench mark, what do I measure my work against? Not only as good or bad, but also as how further off is my push the boundary stuff? 

But then again without the help of Gauguin, how much further (could and/orwould)  Gogh have gone on?
Or from more recent lot: What makes Tjalf Sparnaay's fried eggs and burgers on canvas so massively successful given their commonplace themes?


Hello,

Looking at today's re:viral, which is      dandelion antsronauts    by Tom Sacramona,
I'm curious how many current editors of haiku magazines would say that they have expanded what
they accept to include short poems which may not be haiku, but which are interesting anyway. I know there is ongoing debate about what is and is not a haiku, but it does seem that there are poems which would be hard to fit into any category except maybe haikuesque or something. I personally think this is a good thing, and besides, where else are these strange little poems going to go?

Meg

Anna

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Re: haiku or something else
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2016, 05:17:32 AM »

spilt milk
oil on canvas
still ...life?
If anyone comes, / Turn into frogs, / O cooling melons!

¬Issa

AlanSummers

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Re: haiku or something else
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2016, 05:38:07 AM »
There is a long history of painting food, and making still life something akin to its molecules vibrating.


spilt milk
oil on canvas
still ...life?



Spilt milk:
oil on linen
http://www.davidcobley.com/still-lifes-c5jd?lightbox=i5669

David Cobley says:
"Still lifes
 
“I see another painting almost everywhere I turn. Things in the studio take on a significance they might not otherwise have, and become metaphors for something else. They remind me of conversations with friends, of things I have heard on the radio or read in books.
 
There is a beauty and a kind of visual poetry in simple objects placed one against the another. Each speaks to the other of an absent human presence in a silent language of its own.”

http://www.davidcobley.com/still-lifes-c5jd

As molecules are entities with a sense of humour nothing really stands still or isn't life I guess.

Alan

Anna

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Re: haiku or something else
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2016, 06:15:00 AM »
Alan,

Quote
David Cobley says:
"Still lifes
 
...
 
...There is a beauty and a kind of visual poetry in simple objects placed one against the another. Each speaks to the other of an absent human presence in a silent language of its own.”
http://www.davidcobley.com/still-lifes-c5jd


that is very much like the original thought behind haiku, ....no?


Quote
As molecules are entities with a sense of humour nothing really stands still or isn't life I guess.




 ;D  makes sense in a subatomic way ...



If anyone comes, / Turn into frogs, / O cooling melons!

¬Issa

meghalls

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Re: haiku or something else
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2016, 07:27:42 AM »
Maybe I should have said there is not much more to be wrung from me on this matter. In one of those links Peter Yovu said something about writing that takes the risk of "not being haiku". My opinion is that I
understand this (I think) and I like writing I find sometimes even in some of the haiku magazines mentioned before that seems to have taken this risk and maybe what the writers have come up with is or isn't haiku but it doesn't matter.

Paul Miller said  Monday bleeding down to money  probably isn't a haiku, but I say maybe it doesn't matter.

So looks like a thing or two still to be wrung from me.

Meg
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 08:34:36 AM by meghalls »

AlanSummers

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Re: haiku or something else
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2016, 05:03:34 PM »
Meg,

I just wanted to thank you so much for creating this discussion and being so patient.  I am hoping you get more responses, either here, or in other ways.

warm regards,

Alan


Maybe I should have said there is not much more to be wrung from me on this matter. In one of those links Peter Yovu said something about writing that takes the risk of "not being haiku". My opinion is that I
understand this (I think) and I like writing I find sometimes even in some of the haiku magazines mentioned before that seems to have taken this risk and maybe what the writers have come up with is or isn't haiku but it doesn't matter.

Paul Miller said  Monday bleeding down to money  probably isn't a haiku, but I say maybe it doesn't matter.

So looks like a thing or two still to be wrung from me.

Meg

Anna

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Re: haiku or something else
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2016, 08:22:31 AM »
Alan, Meg, I found this very interesting link: http://www.graceguts.com/essays/the-seed-of-wonder


If anyone comes, / Turn into frogs, / O cooling melons!

¬Issa

Paul Miller

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Re: haiku or something else
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2016, 12:52:24 PM »
Hi Meg / Alan,

I think “dandelion antsronauts” is an interesting poem. Is it a haiku? Not sure. Does it matter? Well… I am the editor of Modern Haiku, not Modern Any Kind of Poem, so yes it does—to me. That doesn’t necessarily mean I wouldn’t publish a poem if I find it haiku-like. I publish many things that I can’t strictly call haiku (whatever that means), but they are in some orbit of haiku; they test my understanding of what I consider to be the genre's boundary. Hopefully they test others’ boundaries as well.
 
That said, there are lots of magazines (Noon, Lilliput Review, islet, etc) that publish other kinds of little poems. I don’t worry about them not finding a home. 

Paul

meghalls

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Re: haiku or something else
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2016, 06:07:54 PM »
I am happy that Paul stopped by. What he says makes perfect sense to me. I would speculate that a lot of the poems that qualify as what Paul calls "other kinds of little poems" wouldn't have come to light without some exposure to haiku. It would be interesting to see some kind of study on that. Is it just that a lot of people who started writing haiku of "haiku-like" poems kind of experimented themselves right out of the
haiku orbit? Or do they think of themselves as still in orbit, just far far from the sun?

Probably a lot of different answers to that, but kind of interesting I think.

Thank you.

Jan Benson

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Re: haiku or something else
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2016, 06:43:41 PM »
Interesting thread.
Glad to see Paul Miller has noted his perspective.
Jan
---1st Prize_The Italian Matsuo Basho Award 2016 (Int'l Foreign Language)
---A Pushcart Nominated Poet, (haiku "adobe walls").
---"The poet is accessible, the poet is for everyone." Maya Angelou

 

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