Author Topic: How to lend voice to the speaker in haiku?  (Read 4352 times)

Anna

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Re: How to lend voice to the speaker in haiku?
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2016, 07:51:22 AM »
In art... if we were to take one example,  then I would go with Van Gogh and how he included the "ma" into his work.

Pointillism, the technique of using dots/points to create depth was pioneered by Seurat and Signac. There were many many who adopted the technique, to the "T", impressive work and yet, there is the distinct feel that the dots are there to follow the technique but not to really make an aesthetic statement.

Now Van Gogh was already moving away from the traditional styles of the Dutch painters and of course he was experimenting with his brush strokes.
Where does the concept of Ma come in here?

He followed the Pointillists, but he took what was needed, and adapted it to his style.  What we are left with are memorable works,  the earliest being - The Sower - not one of my favourites...but there is a certain elegance in the way he worked from then on, leaving out many details for the viewer to interpret.

I think Matisse too has used the concept of negative space or Ma as we are discussing here to a great advantage. That which is not the  subject is the negative space ...according to the def. What then, is negative space in Matisse's collages?

We are back to where we began, isn't it?  Who is behind the gate, the girl on the tight rope or the person with the camera?
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Here is another link from the Haiku foundation threads :

http://www.thehaikufoundation.org/forum_sm/index.php?topic=2634.0


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I think it is not just haiku but also poetry and ...with social media being the in thing,  Ma is a thing that is rather ancient and non-happening...











A big blue sky!
have the buffaloes eaten
all of the clouds?   
                             ¬Mikihiko Itami (1920-)

Anna

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Re: How to lend voice to the speaker in haiku?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2016, 07:51:57 AM »
Hi Martin,

I will be saying more about MA etc... in an interview, but in the meantime I feel outside Japan we can do MA and kigo, but in our own different ways.   After all the planet is as old equally to whatever country is writing haiku. :)

Alan



Yes Alan, please share the link
A big blue sky!
have the buffaloes eaten
all of the clouds?   
                             ¬Mikihiko Itami (1920-)

AlanSummers

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Re: How to lend voice to the speaker in haiku?
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2018, 05:22:39 AM »
Hi Anna,

I see I didn't get around to sharing the link, which was an interview by Shloka Shankar of Sonic Boom. Here's a blog post which includes the link:
http://area17.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/negative-space-in-haiku-writing-poetry.html

Hi Martin,

I will be saying more about MA etc... in an interview, but in the meantime I feel outside Japan we can do MA and kigo, but in our own different ways.   After all the planet is as old equally to whatever country is writing haiku. :)

Alan



Yes Alan, please share the link

flowerfox

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Re: How to lend voice to the speaker in haiku?
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2018, 12:06:47 PM »
 Hi, Anna, you mentioned 'The Sower' which one?

I particularly like this painting - Arles June 1888, a wonderful movement to it.

The one that struck me when you mentioned this particular painting - the sower- which there are a few.
The Sower - Arles- November 1888 could have the 'ma' element. Here we have a close-up of a sower of seeds, a dark painting, these seeds well depicted in the painting.Is van Gogh representing his own seeds (in the brothels a dark and desolate place) and not producing the one thing he so dearly wanted, a crop of his own making.
A marvellous subject for haiku   
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 12:12:14 PM by flowerfox »

AlanSummers

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Re: How to lend voice to the speaker in haiku?
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2018, 12:24:11 PM »
I am guessing this one of the eleven Sowers as it appears close to Pointillism:
https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/collection/d0302V1972r

Here are all eleven:
https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/search/collection?Q=The%20Sower



Hi, Anna, you mentioned 'The Sower' which one?

I particularly like this painting - Arles June 1888, a wonderful movement to it.

The one that struck me when you mentioned this particular painting - the sower- which there are a few.
The Sower - Arles- November 1888 could have the 'ma' element. Here we have a close-up of a sower of seeds, a dark painting, these seeds well depicted in the painting.Is van Gogh representing his own seeds (in the brothels a dark and desolate place) and not producing the one thing he so dearly wanted, a crop of his own making.
A marvellous subject for haiku

flowerfox

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Re: How to lend voice to the speaker in haiku?
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2018, 11:28:05 PM »
Thanks Alan. The one I find most intriguing is the first painting with the second link.

I'm assuming this painting was was done from memory because of the time of year, and wonder is it more of a symbolic panting of his state of mind and an emotion within. Do you think understanding the artist, as much as we can, gives that white space within a painting when viewing?
We all have differing opinions, see things differently, we see this in our workshop threads.
Such fascinating subjects.
 

Jan Benson

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Re: How to lend voice to the speaker in haiku?
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2018, 11:57:59 PM »
Alan.
Enjoyed the grouping of 11.
Especially this one
https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/collection/d0348V1962

Sprite movement of the sower, high sun but a breeze, evident in the grain.
A man glad to do the work, happy in nature.
Sowing his seed in broad daylight, almost dancing in it.
Perhaps he's just left the brothel?

:-)
Jan
---1st Prize_The Italian Matsuo Basho Award 2016 (Int'l Foreign Language)
---A Pushcart Nominated Poet, (haiku "adobe walls").
---"The poet is accessible, the poet is for everyone." Maya Angelou

AlanSummers

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Re: How to lend voice to the speaker in haiku?
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2018, 06:42:02 AM »
re:

Do you think understanding the artist, as much as we can, gives that white space within a painting when viewing?

I write and continue to write about whitespace/negative space. Do we need to know anything about an artist or any other kind of author? I feel both no, and yes. We are coloured by what we think and what we think is coloured by what is out there, mostly incorrect.

The Van Gogh Museum website is a good source, and I enjoyed visiting the actual venue more than once, and the surprise the first time when there was the comparative Van Gogh/Munch exhibition.

white paintings:
http://area17.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/negative-space-in-haiku-writing-poetry.html

Dr Who and Van Gogh when Science Fiction can become an invaluable tool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubTJI_UphPk

warm regards,
Alan



Thanks Alan. The one I find most intriguing is the first painting with the second link.

I'm assuming this painting was was done from memory because of the time of year, and wonder is it more of a symbolic panting of his state of mind and an emotion within. Do you think understanding the artist, as much as we can, gives that white space within a painting when viewing?
We all have differing opinions, see things differently, we see this in our workshop threads.
Such fascinating subjects.

Seaview

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Re: How to lend voice to the speaker in haiku?
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2018, 01:38:26 PM »

Perhaps he's just left the brothel?

:-)

 ;D

Oh, this comment did make me smile, Jan. But it’s my birthday weekend and perhaps I’m being too frivolous!

marion
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 04:44:43 PM by Seaview »

Seaview

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Re: How to lend voice to the speaker in haiku
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2018, 04:52:05 PM »
re:

Do you think understanding the artist, as much as we can, gives that white space within a painting when viewing?

I write and continue to write about whitespace/negative space. Do we need to know anything about an artist or any other kind of author? I feel both no, and yes. We are coloured by what we think and what we think is coloured by what is out there, mostly incorrect.


I don’t think we have to know everything about an artist before viewing their work because, as you say, Alan, this can influence how we absorb it. However, often it can be interesting and  enriching when I read the accompanying notes in a gallery after viewing a painting.

marion